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INTERVIEW WITH THE PRIMATE, CHURCH OF NIGERIA, (ANGLICAN COMMUNION)

INTERVIEW WITH THE PRIMATE, CHURCH OF NIGERIA, (ANGLICAN COMMUNION), THE MOST REVD. PETER J. AKINOLA, CON AT THE ON-GOING ONE WEEK BISHOP RETREAT AT IBRU CENTRE, AGBARHA-OTOR

Theme of the Retreat and what you have for the bishops and the Church

We are going to focus on discipleship which is a continuation of what we started last year when we introduced the subject of “youths of our Church”.

You will recall that I was to retire January 2009 but haven been asked to stay to the end of my primatial tenure which is March 2010, I was not going to start a new visioning process but rather I would take two aspects of the original vision we had and work more on these two areas and the two areas picked were youth of our Church and Christian Discipleship. So, at this Retreat, we are going to be looking at discipleship of the members of the church in its various ramifications. The reasons being that we have seen a lot of lapses and misbehaviour on the part of many Christians in this country in various ways and various places and my own conclusion really is that if the Church leadership takes very seriously the issue of leadership and that if Christians are disciple in the way of the gospel to know how to address every question of life that may arise and how to behave and how to carry themselves in the way that conforms to the mind of Christ, perhaps things will be better both in the Church and in the State. The second aspect of that will be that we too as leaders in the Church will be compelled to look at our ministry if we are discharging our duties faithfully, effectively and efficiently under God and if we are fulfilling our roles as Priests and Prophets of God in our time. Are we really proclaiming the mind of God to this nation, to God's people? So we shall be examining ourselves.

As for the opportunity we have this week, we have a responsibility to look at ourselves as servants in God's Church to make amends where we feel we have gone wrong and re-energize, re-empowered by the Holy Spirit to go out there and proclaim the Word of God to God's people in a way that they too will live a life that conforms to the mind of God. So that is the focus of this Retreat.

Any necessity for training?

Once we as Bishops have taken it on board that discipleship is the key and that that is what we need to do at this time, then we have the tools to use. We will empower our clergy and senior lay leaders in Sunday Schools, Bible Schools, Bible Study programs, women groups and they will be empowered and encouraged to become better disciplers. We will disciple our clergy while our clergy will in turn disciple lay leaders.

Church leaders giving wrong advice to political reasons for money

It may well be true. I myself have heard a lot of preaching which they call sermons which are not in my own opinion what they ought to be when from the beginning to the end of the message, all they lay emphasis on is how to be more prosperous, make more money, become wealthier and that is not it!

A large number of preachers today do not seem to see anything wrong in proclaiming what they call the gospel of prosperity and lay emphasis from the beginning to the end of their sermons, on how to make so called break through, get their miracles and getting more money and all that.

I am not against earning money nor getting wealth after all, we all need money to do what we need to do both for ourselves and the Church of God. But when that becomes the focus of our message, the pivotal of our service and the centre of our lives, it is wrong.

And concerning politicians, how many leaders in the Church do we hear in recent times telling them that what they are doing is wrong. Very few, if any. That is what I call conspiracy of silence, not just by the Pastors but all other stake holders like the media, lawyers, engineers, accountants among others.

We all see that things are going wrong and we simply keep quiet so far everybody is doing it as if silence is the right barometer to measurer such vices.

There was this topic I shared with the Bishops on what somebody called consensual validation of wrong practice. When a bad practice is continued over a period of time, it becomes the norm. and the wrong general notion is that everybody is doing it. But it is not right.

So, bet it Pastor, or lawyer or any one at all, we are all stakeholders in the affairs of this nation, and when we see things going on in a wrong direction; It is our duty to call the nation's politicians to order. After all, we put them there. They are there by the strength and power of our ballot. So they should be accountable to us. No politician is above the law. No politician is occupying a post on his own. Politicians are there because we are here. If we are not here, they are not there, so they are accountable to us. Therefore, it is the duty of all of us, Pastors, Bishops, lawyers, accountants, everybody to call our political leaders to order.

If anyone is found wanting, we replace him. Nigeria has a population of about 150 million people.

The insignificant number in the National Assembly and the State Houses of Assembly compared with the number of people in the entire nation should not be allowed to hold us to ransom.

State of the Youth in the Church today

The good thing is that our youth are being given not only a space but are also beginning to have a voice and very strong voice. I am encouraging them to be up and doing in their assigned responsibilities in the Church. I am very impressed to see these young people in Abuja and other places exhibiting their traits. Some of them have gone to the extent of forming drama groups. In a particular Parish, they constitute the Harvest Committee. And the older people just sat back and watch them doing it. It is so interesting to see our youth exhibiting their potentials and they are now releasing their energies under God and they are doing very well. I think this is just the beginning.

Secondly, due to the fact that they are up and doing, and working very hard in the church, they have begun to attract their colleagues and peers who are out there into the Church. It is very good indeed and I just hope they will be able to sustain this momentum. We would continue to encourage our young people to have both space and voice in our Church.

Pentecostalism in the Church

We often use words without knowing what we are talking about. When we talk about Pentecost, we refer to that day when God through Christ sent down upon what we call the Recipient Church, the early Church, the power of the Holy Spirit to enable them to proclaim and testify to the life and ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ. And reading the book of Acts very well, we realize that they Holy Spirit came primarily to enable the Church to testify and witness to the life and ministry of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ and that they did very well.

You heard Peter for the first time when he had been empowered coming out saying “Jesus of Nazareth, whom you killed and God raised from the dead...”. And from that sermon, three thousand souls were converted.

So, that was the Pentecost. Whenever we talk about Pentecostalism and implying the meanings that are not bible-based, I will say, hold it.

Our Church has always been a Church led by the Holy Spirit. We believe very firmly in the authority and supremacy of the scriptures. We also believe very firmly and strongly in the historical establishment of the early Church. Anglican Communion did not just fall down by the corner yesterday. We have been part of the Catholic i.e. Universal Church for the past 2,000 years.

So we have history and antecedents. Therefore as an offspring of the early Church, we try not to over-emphasize one thing over and against the other. We maintain a very lively balance between what is scriptural, historical and reasonable. You will not see us rolling on the floor, doing acrobatic claiming to be under the power of the Holy Spirit.

Everything we have ever done in this Church and still doing today has been made and still being made possible by the Holy Spirit. He is the way and without Him, we have no way. So, we believe very strongly that this manifestation of the Holy Spirit is always there and always guiding, leading and enabling the Church to grow and move on. The Holy Spirit cannot be caged for anyone to say this is the particular way He should operate. He moves as He pleases and does what glorifies our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ and not individuals.

Sometimes, He enables people to pray and healing happens. In another place, He enables people to preach the Word and sinners are converted. We have heard testimonies from some of our new dioceses where they preach and those into idolatry brought out their shrines and destroyed their idols. Without the Holy Spirit, this is practically impossible. We have also heard testimony of communities that had been at war for years, reconciled. All these are by the power of the Holy Spirit. So, in the Anglican Church, we try to maintain a balance. They Holy Spirit enable all that we do and we try not to over emphasize a particular way of the work of the Holy Spirit by making special reference to what is called Pentecostalism or whatever.

Problem in Nigeria is like a recurring decimal, do you see a revolution coming?

Year 2010 happens to be the 50th year of Nigeria's independence. For the Church, this is very significant. In the scriptures, we talk of year of jubilee, the 50th year which is the 'year of release, of new beginning as it were, of freedom and transformation'.

If 2010 is to be Nigeria's year of Jubilee, then, all of us must go down on our knees and pray to God to make it so. We cannot continue on the way we are going. As I have always said, we have been going round and round like a recurring decimal. It's the same vicious circle. The same old and spent political cabal in this country keep on recycling themselves, even after they have left office, they still want to hold on to power though cronies they install. This is a huge problem. And they have nothing new to offer. They have no idea whatsoever as to what to do. And so with them we are not going to make any progress as a nation.

I was at Ile-Ife recently when Oni of Ife was celebrating 80th birthday. At 80, Papa was ready for service by 9.00 a.m. He sat down waiting for the others to come. They did not show up until three hours later. Therefore, the service scheduled for 10.00 a.m. did not start until 1.00 p.m. how does one interpret that kind of attitude. These are the people who do not give a damn about Nigeria. In that hall, were the Sultan of Sokoto, Emirs, Obas, Governors, foreign dignitaries from England, America, Togo, Benin Republic and these so-called political leaders, the Oni was waiting for did not show up until three hours later. What does that tell the World of who we are. If they care, would they have treated human beings that way? We were packed full in that place and heat was so much.

The Air-conditioners were powered by a generating set and that was after Nigeria claimed to have 'spent' over 20 billion dollars on electricity in the last seven years. The place was so hot that we felt imprisoned for three hours. If you read Nigeria situation from there, you will see the same lackadaisical attitude all over the nation. Whether there is light, food, good road, or not, Nigerian political leaders do not care nor bother. All they care for is themselves and their pockets. In the budget for this year, there was provision for diesel costing so many millions of naira for Presidential villa while so many millions were earmarked to take care of insects! As long is it concerns them, they will make provision but for the rest of Nigerians, they just do not care.

What does that suggest to me and you. They seem to have forgotten the adage that says: ' everyday belongs to the thief, but one day belongs to the owner' and that one, day, that belongs to the owner, the thief will be caught.

In essence, what that means is that one day, all these recycled politicians who do not have any vision for the nation nor sense of what to do will wake up one morning to face the wrath of common men telling them enough is enough and that is revolution.

I expect that Nigerians who have been so docile and easily manipulated all these years would wake up from their slumber and come out boldly that they are fed up with this situation.

There is the possibility of a non-violent revolution (for the Church would never support any form of violence), that would put things right in this country by the use of brain and the media among other available means to call political leaders to order, because things cannot just continue in this manner. I am therefore pleading with all political leaders to let this year of jubilee, be the year of release of Nigerians from bondage, and make it year of true freedom, jubilation, transformation.

Politicians should call off the attitude that portrays them as if they do not know what they are doing. It is highly embarrassing that among the population of 150 million people, how come we cannot get a few dynamic visionary young people who have the brain, the interest of their fellow Nigerians at heart and the courage to stand in the gap and do what is necessary for this country to move forward. Definitely, these set of 'saviours' abound but when with their brain and ability, are afraid and easily intimidated and continue to be in hiding, the vacuum will be filled by those who should not be there.

Has occultism got to do with the 'I do not care attitude' and boldness of political leaders?

I do not have a categorical answer to that but I can say this much. This nation is said to be a religious nation where Christians and Moslems constitute more than 900/0 of the population.

If all Christian would hold fast to their Christ and Muslims abide by what they profess to believe, there would be no reason for occultism. but where religious people are not holding to their faith but turning to occultism, then it is too bad.

Casting our mind back to Festac 77 when the old religious system were perhaps inadvertently revived, and from since then year by year, State by State have been having what is called cultural revival without thinking of the implication. cultural revival is not just dancing or a way of life but full of certain elements of old pagan religion. Our television screens are filled regularly with magic movies deceiving a lot of people with illusions. We can also call to mind, the Okija shrine saga in Anambra State and I am sure there will be many more.

Therefore from what we have been seeing and judging by the way many political leaders behave in this country it is as if they are possessed and demonic and need to be exorcised, we need to pray to God to set them free.

Looking at few behavioural patterns, here you are, a politician, we know how much your salary is, but coming to your house, the number of cars packed in your house, the number of overseas travels you make in a year, houses you own in Dubai, Johannesburg, Pretoria, Cape Town, Maryland, New York, London raises numerous questions? first of all, one wonders why you are having all those houses because when you travel, you do not stay in any of them, rather you lodge in hotels, so, the houses are there locked up for reptiles, lizards and the rest of them.

The money that would have been used to develop our nation and improve our economy is carted out and kept in foreign vaults leaving Nigerians to suffer. Is that not a kind of demon possession? anyone that is normal would not do that.

Consider this again, a minister, or a governor, sneezes off he goes to Germany for treatment, yet we have several Nigerian doctors in the Western world, America, Europe and even in South East Asia and the Middle East. You would be surprised to know that if today, you go to London University Teaching Hospital, you will discover to your amazement that many topmost Consultants there are all Nigerians, Go to Dubai, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, the same thing. We have one of our Bishops who is a Professor of Medicine. He just came from Saudi Arabia. So we have Nigerians who are excellent and well trained. Nigeria is blessed with first class brains.

Secondly, Nigeria has all the money we need (not to talk of the excess of income from crude oil sales) to buy the best medical equipment. Then what stops us from buying all the equipment that we need and bring back home Nigerians into our teaching Hospitals so that instead of running abroad, we can receive all the treatment we need here. Why must top government functionaries be taken outside the country for treatment. Even at societal level, when they have heart failure or kidney problem, they go to India, some to Capetown and they have to raise money to fly them there. In our local Churches, we have the problem of raising money to aid people to go to India for treatment. What does India have that we do not have in Nigeria where we have both the brain and the money?

The question is this, if the governments in india, South Africa, Germany, Saudi Arabia are not patriotic enough to establish those hospitals that Nigerians patronize, where do we then go? If the citizens of America, England and those mentioned above have not utilized their own resources to develop their fatherland, which gave birth to those hospitals, regarded as miracle centres, where will Nigerians be going for treatment. Why must we all go outside for treatment when we have all it takes to be treated here?

The same problem is true of our educational system. We have all these schools all over the place, with some of them tagged: 'international school', truly with overseas background. We also have Federal, State and private Universities. but where are the children of our policy makers attending their own schools – overseas of course. Is that not it itself an indictment of the whole system.

“”as Nigerian leaders, trusted to build our nation's educational system to conform to the world's best standards, politicians make policies in which they themselves do not believe or have confidence. Else, why don't they their send their children to the best they prepared for Nigerians but would rather send their children Overseas. Is that not hypocrisy? God is warning all these so called policy makers to repent this year of Jubilee. I call on Bishops and other religious leaders to pray for these people.

Stopping of innocent shedding of blood/Religious Crises

This has been happening for years and I have said that it is the government itself encouraging this evil. I have raised alarm asking that we ensure that every culprit is brought to book whenever it happens to serve as a deterrent to others, but the government has continued to keep deaf ear to this. Since there has been no such action, it is like it is the government itself aiding and abetting the evil and until it does what should be done, the trend would continue. After precious lives have been lost and properties destroyed, some of the perpetration of this evil who really are murderers and arsonists are arrested and released without punishment. I challenge the Federal Government and the Police to deny this.

No religious leader in his right senses would encourage what is going on in this country which is a secular or multi-religious state. So, in a nutshell, the whole blame is on the government.

Attempted bombing of American plane

This is an isolated case because Nigerians are not known for terrorism. One can accuse them of corruption and all that but not terrorism. it was unfortunate that the culprit came from Northern Nigeria. I believe America will deal with the problem in its own way and will eventually discover that terrorism is not the way of Nigerians.

However, going by the signal that has been given as far as I am concerned the Church in Nigeria needs to be at alert more so that the young man confessed that there were still other young men like him who have been brain-washed into this business of destroying lives. So, what stops them from making similar attempt in Lagos, Ibadan or Jos.

Comment on your tenure and word of encouragement to your successor

It is not for me to assess my tenure, my achievement, my success my failure and all that. The Church would do that.

However, when I came in our Church embarked on various activities according to our vision and of course we had the goal post to measure the actualization of the vision.

By God's grace, I have tried what I could within the purview of that vision. the failure and success of that vision will be assessed by the Church itself and not by me.

There are five cardinal principles in the vision that have to do with sustainable spirituality, rural evangelism, caring for the needy, for the sick and all that, ecumenism occupying our rightful place in the Ecumenical community and of course to be self-funding, self reliant. These are the five broad areas of the vision I operated on. The assessment of what we have done and have not will be done by the Church in due course.

As for my successor, God gave me my own shoes and He will equally give him his own. God calls us to do special things in different generations. However, if there are certain areas of the vision that are yet to be completed, of course, he would carry it on, and take the vision to a logical conclusion and even improve on same.

The church fathers are there to work with him and assist him to analyse the elements of the vision and where we have not done too well, he has the opportunity to improve and where we have achieved good results, he will consolidate. The church cannot afford to be static. There must be new things God want us to do.

This is the first decade of this millennium of two digits. The first decade of single digit is gone. I worked in the single digit decade and he is working in the double digit decade, so the Church has to double her effort. God's Church is big, national, regional and global which makes the work ahead big. So we will pray for him and for the whole Church so that he would catch the vision of what to do which has to be in double digits in line with the new decade.

The Church has come a long way; it's situated in every nook and cranny of the country. There is no village you go and you will not find our Church today. So, we are everywhere including the cities and we are still growing. We are also regional in the sense that we play vital role among other provinces in the continent. we are also in Global Anglican Future Conference (GAFCON),a new movement that is trying to maintain the orthodoxy of scriptures and this is worldwide. it is difficult for anyone to define Christianity today in the Anglican would without making reference to the Church of Nigeria because we are on world map. However, being there is one thing, to keep being there is yet another thing. So, the Church from now on will even have to work harder to keep on being there and even to go beyond. The sky is not the limit and it is God's Church that must continually be taken higher and higher.

Message for the Church

Akinola has come and has done what the good Lord has helped him to do and a new Primate is coming in March 25.

My message to the Church of Nigeria is to realize that Akinola is Akinola, Nicholas Okoh is Nicholas Okoh. They are two different people from entirely different backgrounds.

It may be necessary at times to compare leaders but I want to urge that we do not carry the principle of comparison to unnecessary proportions. We should allow the incoming Primate to settle down and God who gave me my own shoes will also give him his own.

With the co-operation and prayers of all our members – clergy and Bishops, I am sure the sky would be his limit.

As for the Church in general, this nation is in a mess largely because I believe that we as leaders of religion are failing God and the nation as we have abdicated our prophetic role in the society. We cry peace, peace when in actual fact we should cry war, war. We eulogize political leaders, we sing praises of people who are rich because of material gains and consequently they continue in the evil they are in without thinking of the consequences and that is why we as a nation are where we are today.

Therefore my appeal to all of us, religious leaders including myself is to reclaim our prophetic role and declare to this nation, “Thus says the Lord…” without fear or favour, without fearing whose ox is gored. If anything happens thereafter, we will be able to beat our chests and say we have fulfilled our own part and that we have done what we were called to do. We should stop exalting god of mammon (money) at the expense of the nation remembering that should God

http://www.anglican-nig.org/main.php?k_j=12&d=372&p_t=index.php?

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